1 00:00:13,970 --> 00:00:11,209 okay yeah welcome everyone to to the 2 00:00:17,180 --> 00:00:13,980 latest webinar how did peptide meet 3 00:00:18,590 --> 00:00:17,190 nucleotide my name is David Lomas i'm 4 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:18,600 just going to introduce and then hand 5 00:00:23,540 --> 00:00:20,160 over to our presenters Burkhardt and 6 00:00:25,340 --> 00:00:23,550 only for this evening just so you know 7 00:00:27,290 --> 00:00:25,350 the document that they're presenting is 8 00:00:30,620 --> 00:00:27,300 a google doc and there is a link to it 9 00:00:33,139 --> 00:00:30,630 on the astrobiology future website at 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:33,149 the end of the webinar will change it 11 00:00:36,979 --> 00:00:35,130 around so that anyone can comment on 12 00:00:38,990 --> 00:00:36,989 that document and that's where we'd 13 00:00:41,510 --> 00:00:39,000 invite you to get involved and to 14 00:00:45,139 --> 00:00:41,520 comment and discuss what you hear and 15 00:00:46,549 --> 00:00:45,149 help build the document up also the 16 00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:46,559 slides that have been presented tonight 17 00:00:50,959 --> 00:00:48,480 there's a link to those on the website 18 00:00:53,420 --> 00:00:50,969 as well if you go into the events 19 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:53,430 section and the event for for the 5th 20 00:00:57,950 --> 00:00:55,050 December you'll find a link then you can 21 00:01:00,490 --> 00:00:57,960 download the PDF also just to remind 22 00:01:02,689 --> 00:01:00,500 everyone the event is being recorded so 23 00:01:04,729 --> 00:01:02,699 when we open it up to questions and 24 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:04,739 discussion later on anything you say 25 00:01:09,350 --> 00:01:07,290 will be put on the Internet forever for 26 00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:09,360 people to watch and listen to and once 27 00:01:12,590 --> 00:01:10,710 the event is finished we will put a link 28 00:01:15,469 --> 00:01:12,600 on the website as well so you can go 29 00:01:17,929 --> 00:01:15,479 back and listen again so I think that's 30 00:01:19,550 --> 00:01:17,939 pretty much it and Burke I'm really are 31 00:01:20,899 --> 00:01:19,560 going to present first and then we'll 32 00:01:23,539 --> 00:01:20,909 see if there's any questions from 33 00:01:25,609 --> 00:01:23,549 participants and feel free to use the 34 00:01:28,070 --> 00:01:25,619 chat window on connect if you want to 35 00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:28,080 comment or ask questions as we go along 36 00:01:32,030 --> 00:01:29,729 and we'll try and pick those up towards 37 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:32,040 the end of the presentation I think 38 00:01:39,109 --> 00:01:35,810 that's it so over to you Burkhardt okay 39 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:39,119 thank you for the intro and welcome 40 00:01:47,580 --> 00:01:43,530 everyone the topic of today's paper is 41 00:01:50,649 --> 00:01:47,590 how did peptide meet new 42 00:01:54,130 --> 00:01:50,659 there was a whole group of people that 43 00:01:57,130 --> 00:01:54,140 actually authored this paper and the 44 00:02:01,209 --> 00:01:57,140 names of those people has seemed down 45 00:02:02,830 --> 00:02:01,219 below here before so we today we will 46 00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:02,840 actually that the purpose of this 47 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:07,280 meeting is to refresh the memory of the 48 00:02:12,970 --> 00:02:09,530 people that were there and even more so 49 00:02:17,380 --> 00:02:12,980 to welcome additional people to learn 50 00:02:19,630 --> 00:02:17,390 about this paper but we will still stick 51 00:02:21,130 --> 00:02:19,640 more or less to the paper itself and 52 00:02:23,229 --> 00:02:21,140 discuss and gives a little more 53 00:02:27,069 --> 00:02:23,239 background on individual parts of the 54 00:02:33,220 --> 00:02:27,079 paper so those people as I said met at 55 00:02:35,470 --> 00:02:33,230 the roadmap workshop and at the part of 56 00:02:38,500 --> 00:02:35,480 this workshop we came actually up with 57 00:02:41,350 --> 00:02:38,510 this big board here of all those 58 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:41,360 different subjects that we and that was 59 00:02:48,039 --> 00:02:44,200 the people there at the Wallops Island 60 00:02:49,270 --> 00:02:48,049 dozens of scientists we put up the 61 00:02:52,150 --> 00:02:49,280 topics that we thought would be 62 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:52,160 interesting to be a research one in the 63 00:02:57,879 --> 00:02:55,690 next ten years there is then someone 64 00:03:01,660 --> 00:02:57,889 went through the work and made a nice 65 00:03:04,539 --> 00:03:01,670 more readable charge eldest which is the 66 00:03:08,020 --> 00:03:04,549 next slide here despite a diagram that 67 00:03:09,610 --> 00:03:08,030 has has all those different topics on it 68 00:03:10,990 --> 00:03:09,620 and you don't need to read any detail 69 00:03:12,610 --> 00:03:11,000 right now I just want to show you the 70 00:03:14,590 --> 00:03:12,620 complexity of all those different topics 71 00:03:19,629 --> 00:03:14,600 that were brought up and considered a 72 00:03:21,690 --> 00:03:19,639 worthwhile studying so forth I want you 73 00:03:24,699 --> 00:03:21,700 to focus more on the on the left here 74 00:03:28,930 --> 00:03:24,709 and that's exactly where today's paper 75 00:03:31,470 --> 00:03:28,940 comes in I highlighted things in red 76 00:03:36,729 --> 00:03:31,480 here so it's the part of the prebiotic 77 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:36,739 chemistry and those sub topics here are 78 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:40,730 kind of origin likely historical order 79 00:03:46,270 --> 00:03:43,730 so first you need to have sources of 80 00:03:49,180 --> 00:03:46,280 chemicals they they then have to 81 00:03:52,150 --> 00:03:49,190 form polymers etc and 10 here comes in 82 00:03:55,660 --> 00:03:52,160 today's topic how did the polypeptide 83 00:03:59,830 --> 00:03:55,670 mean for the nucleotide so before we 84 00:04:02,729 --> 00:03:59,840 talk about our paper I want to show how 85 00:04:05,470 --> 00:04:02,739 we think our paper is connected to other 86 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:05,480 projects at least the ones that are you 87 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:09,890 on this slide so first the synthesis of 88 00:04:18,069 --> 00:04:13,310 of oligomers and we have had already a 89 00:04:20,770 --> 00:04:18,079 webinar on this then yesterday Irene and 90 00:04:23,830 --> 00:04:20,780 Lauren and Nick presented the paper on 91 00:04:27,159 --> 00:04:23,840 how did maximum molecules gain function 92 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:27,169 and then today we will see about 93 00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:29,690 peptides and nucleotides but then also 94 00:04:33,730 --> 00:04:31,190 we think that this is very closely 95 00:04:37,330 --> 00:04:33,740 related to the next bigger more complex 96 00:04:40,780 --> 00:04:37,340 step in the whole process of origin of 97 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:40,790 life which is what did the earliest life 98 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:43,280 look like and until we know the 99 00:04:48,969 --> 00:04:46,490 laboratory and models of it so this is 100 00:04:53,890 --> 00:04:48,979 my little introduction here and only 101 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:53,900 will now what do you think about this 102 00:05:01,390 --> 00:04:57,290 particular okay hi and before I go into 103 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:01,400 the subtopics or the paper itself I want 104 00:05:07,570 --> 00:05:04,130 to mention that the paper that you 105 00:05:10,330 --> 00:05:07,580 currently find on on the google doc is 106 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:10,340 not yet exactly the same word as we have 107 00:05:16,150 --> 00:05:12,400 here we made a number of changes 108 00:05:18,130 --> 00:05:16,160 together with with some of you and with 109 00:05:20,110 --> 00:05:18,140 that I want to talk about the 110 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:20,120 explanation so what is the whole topic 111 00:05:24,900 --> 00:05:22,610 about the whole topic is about these two 112 00:05:27,430 --> 00:05:24,910 polymeric systems that have differing 113 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:27,440 stability and function so different 114 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:30,410 chemical characteristics and how they 115 00:05:39,820 --> 00:05:36,530 became in turn codependent and the the 116 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:39,830 two polymers of course are poly poly 117 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:43,490 peptide and poly nucleotide and in this 118 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:47,390 explanation here and you see that for 119 00:05:54,339 --> 00:05:51,410 the polypeptides the diverse chemical 120 00:05:57,190 --> 00:05:54,349 alphabet in the form of amino acid chain 121 00:05:59,770 --> 00:05:57,200 and that was linked by a stable peptide 122 00:06:01,780 --> 00:05:59,780 backbone favorite the enhanced readily 123 00:06:06,030 --> 00:06:01,790 the function function so for example you 124 00:06:08,379 --> 00:06:06,040 can imagine that the formation of a 125 00:06:11,230 --> 00:06:08,389 hydrophobic catalytic pocket may be 126 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:11,240 beneficial under some circumstances and 127 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:13,490 in contrast for the protein apologize a 128 00:06:19,659 --> 00:06:16,280 small technical alphabet meaning the 129 00:06:22,060 --> 00:06:19,669 nucleobases linked by a self repulsive 130 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:22,070 backbone meaning the negatively charged 131 00:06:27,820 --> 00:06:24,110 polyphosphate back to translate the 132 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:27,830 backbone in DNA RNA and they favorite 133 00:06:33,159 --> 00:06:30,710 Information Center and together these 134 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:33,169 two chemical characteristics made it 135 00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:36,650 possible they have life as we know and 136 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:39,110 as a little example here just one 137 00:06:45,190 --> 00:06:42,710 peptide 1 ribozyme is an example for the 138 00:06:48,310 --> 00:06:45,200 RNA until you have an RNA protein 139 00:06:51,370 --> 00:06:48,320 article this case rnap to illustrate 140 00:06:54,700 --> 00:06:51,380 what this whole thing is about and and 141 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:54,710 the the next part of the paper is about 142 00:07:02,050 --> 00:06:57,410 why do we care why is this important to 143 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:02,060 the study of origins of life and the 144 00:07:09,340 --> 00:07:04,250 reason is that because we know that 145 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:09,350 extend life expend life relies on the 146 00:07:14,770 --> 00:07:11,330 interactions between proteins and it's 147 00:07:16,719 --> 00:07:14,780 like a tree and this likely or probably 148 00:07:19,719 --> 00:07:16,729 was also true for early life form and 149 00:07:22,270 --> 00:07:19,729 you can think about two different types 150 00:07:24,730 --> 00:07:22,280 of peptides that were involved in these 151 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:24,740 interactions first of all the peptide 152 00:07:28,630 --> 00:07:26,210 could have been free biotic Lee 153 00:07:30,159 --> 00:07:28,640 generated it may have been very short 154 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:30,169 peptides they may have had a very 155 00:07:35,020 --> 00:07:33,530 specific amino acid composition and but 156 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:35,030 they may have been very important in the 157 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:37,370 earlier ages of life and in contrast 158 00:07:44,020 --> 00:07:41,350 once you had translation originating and 159 00:07:47,469 --> 00:07:44,030 you were able to form much longer 160 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:47,479 peptide but probably much longer peptide 161 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:50,630 and probably allowing much more 162 00:07:57,940 --> 00:07:54,010 complicated structures to to arrive and 163 00:08:00,670 --> 00:07:57,950 that's the reason why translation is it 164 00:08:02,860 --> 00:08:00,680 such an invention of translation is such 165 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:02,870 an important step in the original or in 166 00:08:07,330 --> 00:08:05,030 the early forms of life and therefore a 167 00:08:09,399 --> 00:08:07,340 better understanding of how nucleic 168 00:08:12,370 --> 00:08:09,409 acids and peptides depend on each other 169 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:12,380 will show some fundamental constraints 170 00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:13,610 on how life 171 00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:17,150 build on these two polymers do you see 172 00:08:23,020 --> 00:08:20,479 an example with short peptides 173 00:08:26,260 --> 00:08:23,030 illustrated at these red dot and this 174 00:08:29,140 --> 00:08:26,270 blue is the RNA you see this RNA 175 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:29,150 together with a longer more structured 176 00:08:35,139 --> 00:08:31,520 polypeptide that may allow a more 177 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:35,149 complex function and with that I hand 178 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:37,610 back to book right so now we will go 179 00:08:45,269 --> 00:08:41,870 through I think 13 different sub 180 00:08:47,199 --> 00:08:45,279 questions that we defined as a group so 181 00:08:49,449 --> 00:08:47,209 individual despair similar to the other 182 00:08:51,759 --> 00:08:49,459 paper and we will just go through them 183 00:08:53,410 --> 00:08:51,769 one by one one slight at a time some 184 00:08:55,569 --> 00:08:53,420 only will present some I will present 185 00:08:59,620 --> 00:08:55,579 and I'll start with the first sub 186 00:09:01,780 --> 00:08:59,630 question here that is reads what is the 187 00:09:04,509 --> 00:09:01,790 origin and the history of the genetic 188 00:09:06,970 --> 00:09:04,519 code so of course now as religious said 189 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:06,980 that genetic code is at the heart of all 190 00:09:12,930 --> 00:09:09,890 life we know but could a different set 191 00:09:17,019 --> 00:09:12,940 of amino acids and or nucleotides 192 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:17,029 function as effectively and we know from 193 00:09:21,130 --> 00:09:19,310 numerous different studies even from 194 00:09:24,430 --> 00:09:21,140 numerous different fields of studies 195 00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:24,440 that the current 20 amino acid off of it 196 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:28,040 is is actually work in progress and is 197 00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:31,370 the result of a long progress so they're 198 00:09:36,759 --> 00:09:34,910 definitely where smaller alphabets and 199 00:09:40,420 --> 00:09:36,769 earlier at earlier stages so some of 200 00:09:44,829 --> 00:09:40,430 those 20 amino acids that we use today 201 00:09:48,420 --> 00:09:44,839 are very essentially are it's agreed 202 00:09:51,250 --> 00:09:48,430 that they had no chance of being there 203 00:09:54,009 --> 00:09:51,260 it's the origin of life because they 204 00:09:57,550 --> 00:09:54,019 were just not stable enough or prebiotic 205 00:09:59,949 --> 00:09:57,560 chemistry would never make them so the 206 00:10:04,509 --> 00:09:59,959 sub question here invites people to 207 00:10:12,950 --> 00:10:04,519 study the origin of end history of the 208 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:12,960 code the second question is related to 209 00:10:19,130 --> 00:10:16,050 peptides and proteins again and it's the 210 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:19,140 question is the peptide backbone that we 211 00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:23,250 see today is exceptional in a small set 212 00:10:29,020 --> 00:10:25,230 of highly stabilized secondary 213 00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:29,030 structures we know the beautiful 214 00:10:33,620 --> 00:10:31,320 features of alpha helices and beta 215 00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:33,630 strands and almost all proteins that we 216 00:10:39,860 --> 00:10:36,270 people have studied so far seem to use 217 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:39,870 those very efficient ways of forming 218 00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:41,490 structures so that works really really 219 00:10:47,510 --> 00:10:45,270 well but is that is that just is that 220 00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:47,520 the best solution ever probably not so 221 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:49,440 is it a frozen accident then so we 222 00:10:58,150 --> 00:10:53,720 invite people to to study this and maybe 223 00:11:01,240 --> 00:10:58,160 think about alternatives think that I 224 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:01,250 definitely have no idea but could maybe 225 00:11:09,410 --> 00:11:05,250 provide similar structures and possibly 226 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:09,420 functions then the third question only 227 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:12,510 lieutenant and so the third question is 228 00:11:16,580 --> 00:11:14,310 then switching from peptides to the 229 00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:16,590 nucleic acid portion and its address is 230 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:19,020 asking the question was re the first 231 00:11:23,510 --> 00:11:21,690 genetic polymer or was there a prerna 232 00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:23,520 world and the number of people have 233 00:11:30,590 --> 00:11:27,870 studied those possible different prerna 234 00:11:33,410 --> 00:11:30,600 nucleic acid for example TNA for 30 s 235 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:33,420 nucleic acid GNA for clitoral nucleic 236 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:36,210 acid or diverse pianist or peptide 237 00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:39,410 nucleic acid and you can also state this 238 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:42,300 question more generally and you can say 239 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:45,450 are the extent biopolymers as RNA and 240 00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:47,850 DNA and protein are they creations of 241 00:11:55,550 --> 00:11:51,120 biology meaning if they were they 242 00:11:57,950 --> 00:11:55,560 invented by in evolving living organism 243 00:12:01,040 --> 00:11:57,960 or were they incorporated in their 244 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:01,050 current form from a prebiotic chemistry 245 00:12:07,250 --> 00:12:03,570 and then continuously made by biology 246 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:07,260 and here you see as an example this is 247 00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:09,510 where are any worth the first biopolymer 248 00:12:16,580 --> 00:12:13,440 this is where TNA was the first prerna 249 00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:16,590 world there was an RNA world and here 250 00:12:20,330 --> 00:12:18,300 you have GNA and PNA having the 251 00:12:23,180 --> 00:12:20,340 different pre army world function but 252 00:12:26,750 --> 00:12:23,190 later evolved into the DNA RNA protein 253 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:26,760 world and with that we come 254 00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:29,550 the sub question number 4 which is 255 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:34,160 asking 50 did the RNA world utilize 256 00:12:40,010 --> 00:12:37,410 prebiotic we produce peptide so here as 257 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,020 an illustration you see short peptides 258 00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:42,480 for example two three four amino acids 259 00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:45,690 on and they may have been useful for a 260 00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:49,710 catalytic RNA for example an RNA has a 261 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:54,060 harder time orc and pulley arginine may 262 00:12:59,780 --> 00:12:57,210 not be beautiful for a ribozyme because 263 00:13:01,820 --> 00:12:59,790 the pulley arginine has lots of positive 264 00:13:05,210 --> 00:13:01,830 charges and may help finding third 265 00:13:08,390 --> 00:13:05,220 substrate or it could be that those 266 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:08,400 peptides that are then used by the RNA 267 00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:11,970 world they were entirely made by the RNA 268 00:13:17,390 --> 00:13:15,720 world themselves invented early on it by 269 00:13:20,060 --> 00:13:17,400 the only world you have these little 270 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,070 dots symbolize amino acid that were then 271 00:13:25,250 --> 00:13:22,560 polymerized into long peptides that 272 00:13:28,130 --> 00:13:25,260 could fold into structures that directly 273 00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,140 help these ribosomes so the question is 274 00:13:32,780 --> 00:13:30,000 can we distinguish between these 275 00:13:36,590 --> 00:13:32,790 scenarios were prebiotic peptide 276 00:13:38,630 --> 00:13:36,600 beautiful for ribozymes for work was it 277 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:38,640 really that the RNA world needed to 278 00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:43,410 invent their own peptides so the next 279 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:48,240 question and we came up with is can non 280 00:13:53,810 --> 00:13:52,410 encoded peptide replicate and evolve so 281 00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:53,820 that's a little bit related because if 282 00:14:00,500 --> 00:13:58,110 you don't have the system that we see 283 00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:00,510 nowadays next and bail biology would it 284 00:14:05,060 --> 00:14:03,360 still be possible to to replicate and 285 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,070 evolve and I have found a figure here 286 00:14:10,010 --> 00:14:07,680 from some cave from a paper that's that 287 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:10,020 people have done but that's just one 288 00:14:14,730 --> 00:14:11,880 example I'm sure there are many more 289 00:14:21,810 --> 00:14:14,740 possibilities out there that 290 00:14:25,139 --> 00:14:21,820 study so in sub question 5 we are 291 00:14:27,150 --> 00:14:25,149 starting to look at molecular photos 292 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:27,160 that we can find an excellent life in 293 00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:29,410 this case we are looking at non-coding 294 00:14:37,110 --> 00:14:34,360 RNA such as ribosomal RNA RNA PTR na ma 295 00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:37,120 nuclear RNA and other and we are asking 296 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:40,600 did these RNA or ribozyme did they have 297 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:43,990 a role in early forms of life because we 298 00:14:49,949 --> 00:14:47,110 may be able to extrapolate back and say 299 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:49,959 something about the army world or early 300 00:15:01,769 --> 00:14:53,370 forms of life by extrapolating back with 301 00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:01,779 the function in question number 7 we're 302 00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:05,940 asking what can existing rna-protein 303 00:15:13,590 --> 00:15:10,000 metals or cofactor interactions tell us 304 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:13,600 about the history of RNA and protein so 305 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:16,690 I have shown you just a few examples of 306 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:20,490 cofactors first of all ATP and NADH 307 00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:24,070 which really any life that we know use 308 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:27,190 and very very likely both therefore was 309 00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:29,950 very likely there around and functional 310 00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:33,070 in very early forms of life but they 311 00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:35,440 also of course many much more 312 00:15:43,889 --> 00:15:39,100 complicated cofactors that involve metal 313 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:43,899 ions and small organic compounds and of 314 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:45,010 course there's a whole field that 315 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:48,730 studies iron sulfur sulfur clusters and 316 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:53,310 their importance so when we study what 317 00:16:02,010 --> 00:15:57,610 excellent biology uses today maybe we 318 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:02,020 can again extrapolate backwards and try 319 00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:03,970 to understand where those may have come 320 00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:07,350 from and how the early versions of it 321 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:10,120 may have looked like and the following 322 00:16:16,650 --> 00:16:13,690 question is kind of related to this so 323 00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:16,660 the following question 8 is is more a 324 00:16:23,689 --> 00:16:20,560 tough question of the sub question 7 so 325 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:23,699 it's looking specifically of the 326 00:16:28,510 --> 00:16:26,860 nucleotide cofactors that we have in 327 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:28,520 today's extent life 328 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:30,770 form and you all know eighty to eighty 329 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:35,570 BGT p FM nad nad ph or f ad and the 330 00:16:41,410 --> 00:16:38,330 question or these cofactors have also 331 00:16:44,170 --> 00:16:41,420 been used as one piece of evidence that 332 00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:44,180 there was indeed an RNA world because 333 00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:48,550 many of these units they wouldn't need 334 00:16:52,750 --> 00:16:50,900 nucleotides or nucleotide as the 335 00:16:55,510 --> 00:16:52,760 chemistry they could as well be coupled 336 00:16:59,830 --> 00:16:55,520 to a minute but just the fact that these 337 00:17:01,990 --> 00:16:59,840 molecules but are intrinsic and coupled 338 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:02,000 to many different processes and extend 339 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:04,370 life form that they are nucleotide 340 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:06,290 cofactors and what for example amino 341 00:17:11,410 --> 00:17:09,290 acid cofactor suggested that Arnie was 342 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:11,420 much more important in an earlier form 343 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:14,050 of life and maybe that was the reason 344 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:17,690 why the top question eight was taken out 345 00:17:25,570 --> 00:17:21,290 of and focusing in a little bit more 346 00:17:28,510 --> 00:17:25,580 from sub question seven to find um did 347 00:17:30,220 --> 00:17:28,520 early forms of life that they really use 348 00:17:32,590 --> 00:17:30,230 these nucleotide cofactors and what can 349 00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:32,600 you learn about me metabolism for 350 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:36,560 example from their possible important in 351 00:17:43,150 --> 00:17:40,850 early forms of life so we know all the 352 00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:43,160 thought it would be worthwhile to study 353 00:17:50,530 --> 00:17:46,160 how the robustness or evolve the ability 354 00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:50,540 of the single polymer world may or may 355 00:17:59,700 --> 00:17:53,630 not differ from a dual polymeric world 356 00:18:03,730 --> 00:17:59,710 um so a turian Terry on a diet I'm not a 357 00:18:06,490 --> 00:18:03,740 specialist in really studying robustness 358 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:06,500 or involve ability but people do study 359 00:18:16,409 --> 00:18:11,390 evolvability for proteins or for RNA it 360 00:18:18,479 --> 00:18:16,419 was ability for whole duel polymer or 361 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:18,489 is a little more complex and therefore 362 00:18:25,169 --> 00:18:21,970 also more difficult to study but for 363 00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:25,179 those two factors robustness of the 364 00:18:31,159 --> 00:18:28,200 system but also be able to evolve are 365 00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:31,169 absolutely crucial to make progress in 366 00:18:37,619 --> 00:18:35,769 the history of life and so just like 367 00:18:43,109 --> 00:18:37,629 many of the other questions this is a 368 00:18:45,749 --> 00:18:43,119 very open and broad invitation to people 369 00:18:49,099 --> 00:18:45,759 that that have ideas how to study this 370 00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:49,109 so that the roadmap as a whole is not 371 00:18:55,349 --> 00:18:53,529 meant to be as far as I understand like 372 00:18:58,859 --> 00:18:55,359 a cookbook on what experiments should be 373 00:19:00,509 --> 00:18:58,869 done it's rather a collection of 374 00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:00,519 questions that should be answered and 375 00:19:06,269 --> 00:19:02,799 then people should really be as creative 376 00:19:08,369 --> 00:19:06,279 as possible to come up with their way of 377 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:08,379 addressing those questions and hopefully 378 00:19:16,129 --> 00:19:13,210 finding some answers and the sub 379 00:19:20,580 --> 00:19:16,139 question 10 may feel a little bit like 380 00:19:22,919 --> 00:19:20,590 sub-questions 678 where we look at small 381 00:19:25,619 --> 00:19:22,929 molecule but in contrast in the sub 382 00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:25,629 question 10 we are looking at covalent 383 00:19:31,919 --> 00:19:29,440 modifications of RNA or protein that may 384 00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:31,929 have helped the function of RNA and 385 00:19:37,340 --> 00:19:34,960 protein and you may know the are any 386 00:19:40,499 --> 00:19:37,350 modification databases or protein 387 00:19:42,769 --> 00:19:40,509 modification databases and you know that 388 00:19:45,629 --> 00:19:42,779 there's more than a hundred different 389 00:19:50,519 --> 00:19:45,639 modification some of them really exotic 390 00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:50,529 and that may have been generated for the 391 00:19:57,060 --> 00:19:53,080 first time during a very early form of 392 00:20:00,060 --> 00:19:57,070 life and so the question is what can we 393 00:20:03,239 --> 00:20:00,070 say about the early form of life by 394 00:20:07,259 --> 00:20:03,249 looking at today's are any modifications 395 00:20:09,659 --> 00:20:07,269 and today's protein modifications how 396 00:20:16,139 --> 00:20:09,669 where they possibly used in early forms 397 00:20:19,109 --> 00:20:16,149 of life so in the question 11 we invite 398 00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,119 people to study the origin instruction 399 00:20:25,779 --> 00:20:22,480 assembly of the of a proto right alone 400 00:20:29,769 --> 00:20:25,789 so the question also 401 00:20:33,879 --> 00:20:29,779 can we deduce those properties from the 402 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:33,889 extant ribosome what is the evolutionary 403 00:20:39,639 --> 00:20:36,950 pathway to the modern ribosome and of 404 00:20:42,849 --> 00:20:39,649 course the modern ribosome was given to 405 00:20:45,609 --> 00:20:42,859 us by those Nobel laureate here but of 406 00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:45,619 course they just just figured out the 407 00:20:50,649 --> 00:20:47,960 structure really it came from something 408 00:20:55,690 --> 00:20:50,659 much much more simple in several labs 409 00:20:59,169 --> 00:20:55,700 are actively studying this already but 410 00:21:02,440 --> 00:20:59,179 I'm sure there are always more ways of 411 00:21:05,469 --> 00:21:02,450 of hacking away at this very very 412 00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:05,479 important centipede question because 413 00:21:13,060 --> 00:21:09,200 really today the ribosome arguably is 414 00:21:15,129 --> 00:21:13,070 where nucleotide and peptide really 415 00:21:18,430 --> 00:21:15,139 needs in excellent life and that's 416 00:21:24,489 --> 00:21:18,440 really the topic of our paper on solo 417 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:24,499 paper today in sub question 12 and we 418 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:26,450 are trying to think a little bit broader 419 00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:29,450 so we are always thinking about that 420 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:31,849 there was a catalytic and genetic 421 00:21:36,999 --> 00:21:35,330 molecule matches are a type of a RNA 422 00:21:39,489 --> 00:21:37,009 world organism or an early world 423 00:21:42,339 --> 00:21:39,499 organism and am fulfilling molecule 424 00:21:46,599 --> 00:21:42,349 forming amphiphilic molecules forming 425 00:21:48,219 --> 00:21:46,609 lipid membrane around and this it makes 426 00:21:50,139 --> 00:21:48,229 a lot of sense to think about it this 427 00:21:54,909 --> 00:21:50,149 way but there may be other possibilities 428 00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:54,919 and so the core question is can we get a 429 00:22:01,359 --> 00:21:58,129 life like which means self-replication 430 00:22:03,879 --> 00:22:01,369 and open-ended Darwinian evolution from 431 00:22:06,009 --> 00:22:03,889 different assemblies maybe just one 432 00:22:08,019 --> 00:22:06,019 polymer maybe they're sweet maybe 433 00:22:10,719 --> 00:22:08,029 there's three or more possibilities 434 00:22:15,070 --> 00:22:10,729 necessary because so far we do not know 435 00:22:18,609 --> 00:22:15,080 whether it is possible to make and self 436 00:22:21,369 --> 00:22:18,619 replicating and evolving organism with 437 00:22:24,460 --> 00:22:21,379 two polymers such as RNA and lipid 438 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:24,470 vesicles so this is more trying to think 439 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:27,769 more broadly about the polymers we have 440 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:33,710 in early organism and for some questions 441 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:37,580 13 I need to say that were part and I 442 00:22:41,770 --> 00:22:39,530 when we were working on 443 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:41,780 document we were adding this tough 444 00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:43,970 question because we felt there is a 445 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:46,640 little bit of a gap in the existing sub 446 00:22:51,790 --> 00:22:49,130 question and the question is in which 447 00:22:54,610 --> 00:22:51,800 free biotic irrelevant conditions can 448 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:54,620 peptides enhance the function of RNA or 449 00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:57,650 RNA enhance the function f of peptide 450 00:23:04,570 --> 00:23:01,280 and as an illustration down here you may 451 00:23:07,180 --> 00:23:04,580 have RNA molecules that are inefficient 452 00:23:10,210 --> 00:23:07,190 catalyst here for example you have the 453 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:10,220 catalytic site and the major problem for 454 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:12,410 this RNA maybe the binding of a 455 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:14,210 negatively charged small one armor 456 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:17,090 however when you add the help of his 457 00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:19,490 more positively charged peptide you may 458 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:21,820 be much more efficient catalyst and 459 00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:25,010 similarly if you are a peptide that can 460 00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:27,230 catalyze a reaction with the catalytic 461 00:23:32,890 --> 00:23:29,420 right here you may have the problem of 462 00:23:35,260 --> 00:23:32,900 finding a stable old and for example a 463 00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:35,270 small RNA molecule may be able to 464 00:23:39,910 --> 00:23:36,920 provide you with the structural 465 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:39,920 successful that the peptide can assume 466 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:42,170 the confirmation that's necessary for 467 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:44,750 efficient a talented so in this f sub 468 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:48,530 question we are asking can how when can 469 00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:50,690 peptides enhance a function of RNA and 470 00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:52,910 when can RNA enhance the function of 471 00:23:59,650 --> 00:23:57,830 peptide and this sub question also the 472 00:24:02,950 --> 00:23:59,660 South question also really makes another 473 00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:02,960 connection and to people's research that 474 00:24:10,210 --> 00:24:06,280 study relevant conditions on early Earth 475 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:10,220 and this is really one of the focus 476 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:13,370 point here of this question that we want 477 00:24:19,150 --> 00:24:15,950 to play really mainly with personally 478 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:19,160 with the nucleotides and peptide but we 479 00:24:26,290 --> 00:24:20,930 would also like to encourage people to 480 00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:26,300 link this into reasonable scenarios that 481 00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:29,000 that for example geologists or planetary 482 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:33,440 scientists could come up with and link 483 00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:34,820 those two things together so there's 484 00:24:37,049 --> 00:24:35,870 another link that i haven't actually 485 00:24:39,389 --> 00:24:37,059 pointed out 486 00:24:44,220 --> 00:24:39,399 earlier I'm sure they're more in 487 00:24:45,690 --> 00:24:44,230 mornings than that and with that we're 488 00:24:49,409 --> 00:24:45,700 at the end and we are asking for your 489 00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:49,419 suggestion in discussion on that's the 490 00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:50,980 question of oh god what is your most 491 00:24:57,749 --> 00:24:52,870 valued research question what 492 00:25:00,810 --> 00:24:57,759 investigating in the coming 10 year okay 493 00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:00,820 with thank you thank you thank you early 494 00:25:06,090 --> 00:25:02,590 thank you both out for a for walking us 495 00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:06,100 through that the paper the CM we're 496 00:25:09,419 --> 00:25:08,110 going to open the the phone line up in a 497 00:25:11,129 --> 00:25:09,429 second just in case anyone does have any 498 00:25:15,029 --> 00:25:11,139 questions we've got a few more minutes 499 00:25:17,009 --> 00:25:15,039 but just a reminder as it says there on 500 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:17,019 the slide go and have a look at the 501 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:19,450 website there's a addresses in the at 502 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:20,529 the bottom of the screen there 503 00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:24,730 astrobiology futures.org and the the 504 00:25:28,609 --> 00:25:26,950 paper that burkhard annalia presented 505 00:25:31,109 --> 00:25:28,619 will open that up for commenting 506 00:25:33,210 --> 00:25:31,119 immediately after the webinar and so 507 00:25:36,389 --> 00:25:33,220 you'll be able to open that up and have 508 00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,399 a read through and I think earlier did 509 00:25:40,590 --> 00:25:38,799 you say there are a few changes to be 510 00:25:43,769 --> 00:25:40,600 made to that paper to reflect what you 511 00:25:47,489 --> 00:25:43,779 put in the slides here yes and i will 512 00:25:51,509 --> 00:25:47,499 send you this modified paper in minutes 513 00:25:54,210 --> 00:25:51,519 after in the five minutes after the the 514 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:54,220 presentation here is done with by okay 515 00:26:00,060 --> 00:25:57,369 that's great thanks ollie ok so if mike 516 00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:00,070 if you're able just to join the phone 517 00:26:03,779 --> 00:26:01,600 lines up we'll just see if anybody has 518 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:03,789 any immediate questions or things they 519 00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:05,289 want to ask well we've got burkhard 520 00:26:18,379 --> 00:26:07,240 anole on the line please do take the 521 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:18,389 opportunity hello this nikka is that 522 00:26:26,009 --> 00:26:22,330 listen this is a necklace four and a 523 00:26:30,239 --> 00:26:26,019 half a warning Nick mm-hmm go ahead next 524 00:26:35,609 --> 00:26:30,249 Raja tech so I'm i like what you guys 525 00:26:40,499 --> 00:26:35,619 presented I like what you said about the 526 00:26:43,289 --> 00:26:40,509 pre RNAs and then you know even when 527 00:26:46,109 --> 00:26:43,299 you're talking in terms of the 528 00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:46,119 interactions between these biopolymers 529 00:26:50,580 --> 00:26:50,049 unless you said you could have a prerna 530 00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:50,590 that in our 531 00:27:01,710 --> 00:26:53,500 acted with the peptide right so where 532 00:27:07,529 --> 00:27:01,720 you had that I think so that go back 533 00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:07,539 further okay so so right here so I you 534 00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:09,520 know I think that there is this kind of 535 00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:13,390 a multiple levels on which you could 536 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:17,200 look at this and what you have here I 537 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:19,090 think it's great that maybe it wasn't 538 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:21,130 RNA first maybe something before that 539 00:27:27,419 --> 00:27:23,080 but then that also presents the question 540 00:27:29,070 --> 00:27:27,429 that bill if we're peptides really first 541 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:29,080 in their lineage right might have been 542 00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,710 polyesters before them or you know there 543 00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:34,720 might have been you know rasa mates you 544 00:27:42,539 --> 00:27:39,100 know mixtures of lmd amino acids right 545 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:42,549 so a question that would come up to is 546 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,100 that when we're thinking about these 547 00:27:48,899 --> 00:27:47,440 first interactions you know not to 548 00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:48,909 complicate things that we do have to 549 00:27:52,830 --> 00:27:50,830 keep the Overmind you know maybe the 550 00:27:55,139 --> 00:27:52,840 first nucleic acid like polymers were 551 00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,149 interacting with the first episode like 552 00:28:01,200 --> 00:27:57,039 ones that might have been you know 553 00:28:03,299 --> 00:28:01,210 polyesters and i think that's important 554 00:28:05,870 --> 00:28:03,309 of course it doesn't it all superseded 555 00:28:09,779 --> 00:28:05,880 the work to look at you know small 556 00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:09,789 peptides interacting with you know small 557 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:12,640 rnas and see how their cooperation gets 558 00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:15,490 going but we want to make sure that it's 559 00:28:20,399 --> 00:28:17,200 open that if somebody wants to look at 560 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:20,409 you know both of say the earlier 561 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:22,330 versions are there earlier version of 562 00:28:26,940 --> 00:28:24,610 one or the other of these that we should 563 00:28:28,769 --> 00:28:26,950 keep that in mind that these this 564 00:28:30,659 --> 00:28:28,779 cooperation line started quite early 565 00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,669 before everything got sorted out into 566 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:32,320 these you know really nice we find 567 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:36,010 polymers okay so one thing we could do 568 00:28:43,070 --> 00:28:39,010 for example in this second that pays 569 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:43,080 more generally could say what can only 570 00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:46,090 polymer or be free really plausible 571 00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:50,470 polymers creations of biology or were 572 00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:52,990 incorporated from three biotic chemistry 573 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:55,510 do you think that this is working this 574 00:29:01,200 --> 00:28:57,730 would kind of open it up from Arnie DNA 575 00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:01,210 protein to which periodically possible 576 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:02,830 polymers because when you include 577 00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:03,970 polyesters 578 00:29:09,030 --> 00:29:07,840 and put the other yeah yeah you can do 579 00:29:10,590 --> 00:29:09,040 something like that because you could 580 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:10,600 also have like you have in your diagram 581 00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:14,050 here where you have something you know 582 00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:18,910 before the peptide right lineage feeding 583 00:29:24,780 --> 00:29:22,960 into that so yeah if the risk of making 584 00:29:27,450 --> 00:29:24,790 it too complicated you can imagine like 585 00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:27,460 a lineage of the nucleic acid and then 586 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:30,070 below that a lineage of the non-coated 587 00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:31,990 peptides and then some point there 588 00:29:39,030 --> 00:29:34,120 emerging we just don't know at which 589 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:39,040 point the emerged yet so yeah you might 590 00:29:45,420 --> 00:29:41,530 be able to capture they're just changing 591 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:45,430 the wording of that or adding a sentence 592 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:49,930 in there um so we already added the 593 00:29:55,410 --> 00:29:53,050 sentence and I think if we have a third 594 00:29:58,140 --> 00:29:55,420 sentence we are running the baby care of 595 00:30:01,620 --> 00:29:58,150 trying make the sub question to be all 596 00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,630 in combating I think there are other 597 00:30:07,470 --> 00:30:03,760 questions that deal with different 598 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,480 annealing with different molecules so it 599 00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:09,760 might be also further ones where you're 600 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:13,390 talking about baby are the RNA and the 601 00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:15,610 peptides coming together you know 602 00:30:22,590 --> 00:30:20,830 something yeah so fun years if you can 603 00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:22,600 add in there digitar in the world 604 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:25,030 utilize periodically produce peptides or 605 00:30:30,290 --> 00:30:27,010 were functional peptides admitted by the 606 00:30:37,410 --> 00:30:30,300 RNA world you could expand that a bit or 607 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:37,420 in RNA world you know use pay an 608 00:30:42,270 --> 00:30:40,210 ancestor of peptides which were later 609 00:30:48,860 --> 00:30:42,280 refined in the peptide something like 610 00:30:52,770 --> 00:30:48,870 that and then fulfill peptides and 611 00:31:00,000 --> 00:30:52,780 consensus with formal 15 it will later 612 00:31:02,550 --> 00:31:00,010 before this define okay but I'm 613 00:31:05,460 --> 00:31:02,560 opposition to the Google document yeah I 614 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:05,470 really like that suggestion because this 615 00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:07,650 document is supposed to be fighting 616 00:31:12,529 --> 00:31:11,100 people right and not exclude 617 00:31:16,190 --> 00:31:12,539 at all so yeah I really like that 618 00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,200 suggestion that's great thanks yeah yeah 619 00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,480 I'd agree yeah we want we want to kind 620 00:31:23,419 --> 00:31:20,880 of challenge people right to think you 621 00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:23,429 know about things in and hopefully give 622 00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:24,990 us solutions we hadn't thought of that 623 00:31:36,140 --> 00:31:33,590 brilliant thanks guys um can I see other 624 00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:36,150 any other questions either on a build on 625 00:31:39,770 --> 00:31:37,590 this one or on a completely different 626 00:31:43,159 --> 00:31:39,780 topic anybody else got anything they 627 00:31:45,490 --> 00:31:43,169 want to ask all contribute um can I ask 628 00:31:50,659 --> 00:31:45,500 you a question this is irene brewster 629 00:31:52,820 --> 00:31:50,669 hiring help okay height um I'd run a 630 00:31:55,460 --> 00:31:52,830 little bit late I hope you didn't answer 631 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:55,470 this question already but I was 632 00:31:59,779 --> 00:31:57,720 wondering if there is a place either 633 00:32:04,370 --> 00:31:59,789 here or maybe in a different document to 634 00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:04,380 consider different to polymer systems 635 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:07,590 like the DNA RNA possibility as opposed 636 00:32:17,779 --> 00:32:15,380 which gives you pretty well explored 637 00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:17,789 here i wonder if because that i'm 638 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:19,350 looking at the connections to other 639 00:32:26,180 --> 00:32:21,770 questions I don't think like the sort of 640 00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:26,190 two nucleic acid system is necessarily 641 00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:28,260 explicit in any of the other documents 642 00:32:34,399 --> 00:32:29,390 either i'm just wondering where that 643 00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:34,409 that type of research could go so i 644 00:32:40,340 --> 00:32:37,350 think question 12 is doing a little bit 645 00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:40,350 into this direction but maybe not far 646 00:32:48,140 --> 00:32:43,740 enough the way that you are expressing 647 00:32:50,779 --> 00:32:48,150 here and maybe Picard you've seen war 648 00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:50,789 previous to be not you know other 649 00:32:58,580 --> 00:32:54,270 webinars to go deeper into these 650 00:33:00,529 --> 00:32:58,590 alternatives other polymer system let me 651 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:00,539 first make sure that I understood was 652 00:33:06,740 --> 00:33:02,490 Irene was suggesting so you wanted to 653 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:06,750 include an invitation to study the DNA 654 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:11,970 RNA interaction and ten system right 655 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:16,650 like I guess I've seen some advocates 656 00:33:24,899 --> 00:33:23,010 for a DNA RNA world preceding the DNA 657 00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:24,909 RNA protein world 658 00:33:29,099 --> 00:33:26,470 I don't know how popular that scenario 659 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:29,109 is but I just wonder if a two nucleic 660 00:33:37,950 --> 00:33:32,769 acid system might be something we want 661 00:33:41,539 --> 00:33:37,960 to invite and we could also say that at 662 00:33:47,009 --> 00:33:41,549 the point where we say what's there a 663 00:33:49,379 --> 00:33:47,019 prerna world you could just replace one 664 00:33:52,499 --> 00:33:49,389 of these ones with a DNA is that what 665 00:33:55,169 --> 00:33:52,509 you mean that we may have had a DNA in 666 00:33:58,109 --> 00:33:55,179 the pre are any world I mean you are 667 00:33:59,999 --> 00:33:58,119 saying for example based on an annual 668 00:34:01,859 --> 00:34:00,009 list of you I mean that clearly opens 669 00:34:05,869 --> 00:34:01,869 the way for anything else that people 670 00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:09,270 okay maybe I this this is this is Annie 671 00:34:15,629 --> 00:34:12,220 Ellington so I also like Irene was just 672 00:34:16,799 --> 00:34:15,639 able to get on the call um I would only 673 00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:16,809 call yesterday where people were 674 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:18,129 considering you know sort of the 675 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:19,690 evolution of function and so maybe this 676 00:34:23,129 --> 00:34:21,490 is meant to be you know far more 677 00:34:24,809 --> 00:34:23,139 delimited towards you know where did the 678 00:34:26,669 --> 00:34:24,819 RNA world come from or something along 679 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:26,679 those lines but most of what I've been 680 00:34:31,019 --> 00:34:28,529 hearing and seeing so far seems really 681 00:34:33,690 --> 00:34:31,029 constrained like Irene brings up you 682 00:34:36,089 --> 00:34:33,700 know what about DNA sure but there's a 683 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:36,099 lot more what ifs I mean a lot of what I 684 00:34:38,579 --> 00:34:37,089 you know even as you were flipping 685 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:38,589 through the slides like okay if we want 686 00:34:42,690 --> 00:34:41,169 to explain this natural world these are 687 00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:42,700 reasonable questions we want to explain 688 00:34:47,549 --> 00:34:45,399 the possibilities of origins and the 689 00:34:49,470 --> 00:34:47,559 possibilities of living systems these 690 00:34:53,970 --> 00:34:49,480 candies questions even the thrust seem 691 00:34:56,700 --> 00:34:53,980 very constrained to me so do you have 692 00:34:59,069 --> 00:34:56,710 specific question in which that you 693 00:35:00,809 --> 00:34:59,079 would think it could be offended or do 694 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:00,819 you think we should just add another cup 695 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:06,520 question they talk and Irene or me and I 696 00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:10,170 think and ND you just made it more 697 00:35:15,839 --> 00:35:14,470 generally do yeah so we should yes i was 698 00:35:17,069 --> 00:35:15,849 just i would state i would stayed all of 699 00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,079 these some of these questions more 700 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:18,880 generally you know it's like like was 701 00:35:22,049 --> 00:35:20,650 RNA the first genetic polymer or was 702 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:22,059 there prerna world i mean that's very 703 00:35:26,609 --> 00:35:24,250 specific even even to begin with what 704 00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:26,619 are the systems by which genetic 705 00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:29,440 polymers may have evolved and may have 706 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:31,359 transformed there's the general question 707 00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:32,770 the universe of possible genetic 708 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:34,630 polymers and the universe of 709 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:36,490 transformation of those genetic polymers 710 00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:37,810 takes into account DNA 711 00:35:44,430 --> 00:35:42,280 na RNA to DNA DNA to GNA whatever but 712 00:35:45,510 --> 00:35:44,440 but it's a more general question that is 713 00:35:51,450 --> 00:35:45,520 restricted to our current understanding 714 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:51,460 of life on Earth so m1 if we would put 715 00:35:56,430 --> 00:35:54,010 only this very general statement in 716 00:35:58,800 --> 00:35:56,440 there it may be harder to understand it 717 00:36:01,890 --> 00:35:58,810 not in the abstract I'd so I think we 718 00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:01,900 could add very general statement and 719 00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:06,880 then for example they for example in an 720 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:11,620 RNA prerna rule on your good 50 people 721 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:15,250 punched you think that's good I to make 722 00:36:20,570 --> 00:36:17,410 it understandable yeah I do like that 723 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:20,580 suggestion and I very vividly remember 724 00:36:27,470 --> 00:36:24,970 the 10 plus people of us that were the 725 00:36:31,020 --> 00:36:27,480 authors of this paper at Wallops Island 726 00:36:33,570 --> 00:36:31,030 is struggling with us because we had we 727 00:36:36,020 --> 00:36:33,580 most often agreed on a general idea and 728 00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,030 that's exactly what any just said 729 00:36:40,830 --> 00:36:39,040 genetic polymers how could they have 730 00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:40,840 interacted what could have proceeded 731 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:43,660 what but then someone said oh how about 732 00:36:46,830 --> 00:36:45,250 this and then we said okay let's write 733 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:46,840 it down to and then out someone else's 734 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:49,050 oh how about that so then we struggle to 735 00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:51,910 get all those different examples in 736 00:36:56,610 --> 00:36:54,400 there but one way out is to just praise 737 00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:56,620 it broadly enough and then maybe give 738 00:37:02,250 --> 00:36:59,200 two three example but examples but make 739 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:02,260 it make the emphasis on the broad all 740 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:05,590 inclusive way of phrasing it and I 741 00:37:10,890 --> 00:37:09,070 encourage any to go to actually the very 742 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:10,900 paper that will be open for comments 743 00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:14,050 again as I understand later today and 744 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:17,110 just suggest alternatives phrase it 745 00:37:21,450 --> 00:37:19,570 because I think that as far as I can 746 00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:21,460 tell everybody agrees that it should be 747 00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:24,190 general and inviting to two people that 748 00:37:31,470 --> 00:37:27,280 are more creative than one has been out 749 00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,480 there yeah and I sorry go ahead our 750 00:37:36,090 --> 00:37:32,800 answer I was just going to say this is 751 00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:36,100 actually Lindsay what is it so I'm 752 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,520 listening to so this I mean you can tell 753 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:40,960 it with the different sort of the 754 00:37:44,130 --> 00:37:43,090 groupings in the spider diagram that 755 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:44,140 there's certainly sort of different 756 00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:45,970 communities that are mostly in one 757 00:37:50,670 --> 00:37:48,880 grouping or another and so I don't know 758 00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:50,680 how much you guys have listened to 759 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:54,160 z the presentations for the the 760 00:37:57,690 --> 00:37:56,290 formation of habitability side of the 761 00:37:59,760 --> 00:37:57,700 spider diagram all the way to the right 762 00:38:03,810 --> 00:37:59,770 but actually one of the things that they 763 00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,820 did was they actually combined three 764 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:06,160 papers and then spit out three different 765 00:38:10,290 --> 00:38:07,930 papers that were related but basically 766 00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:10,300 they sort of had decided that three of 767 00:38:14,850 --> 00:38:12,730 them were not quite worded correctly and 768 00:38:16,170 --> 00:38:14,860 the way the field is done you know they 769 00:38:18,030 --> 00:38:16,180 felt that it would be better if they you 770 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:18,040 know took a little bit from one and a 771 00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,090 little bit from the other a little bit 772 00:38:23,250 --> 00:38:21,040 from the third and made we know three 773 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:23,260 different papers out of it so if you 774 00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:25,450 guys feel like you know the side that 775 00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:26,740 you know the left side over there the 776 00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:28,750 prebiotic to biotic chemistry isn't 777 00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:32,830 quite divided properly you guys can 778 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:36,340 definitely you know combine synthesize 779 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:38,650 and separate out those papers into other 780 00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:41,850 forms if you feel that better represents 781 00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:44,260 the research that's being done and the 782 00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:45,940 research that you guys want to do in the 783 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:48,520 next ten years actually that's very very 784 00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:50,170 encouraging Wednesday are being relative 785 00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:51,550 to the discussion we had yesterday where 786 00:38:55,950 --> 00:38:53,350 I was worried that folks were getting 787 00:38:58,020 --> 00:38:55,960 too enmeshed in you know sort of their 788 00:38:59,490 --> 00:38:58,030 own directions the notion that you know 789 00:39:01,830 --> 00:38:59,500 there could be that synthesis even at 790 00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:01,840 this level sounds like it's it's very 791 00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:04,720 productive yeah the one the opposite is 792 00:39:08,730 --> 00:39:06,640 the example for the the formation 793 00:39:11,490 --> 00:39:08,740 habitability side was sort of there was 794 00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:11,500 a question about whether or not the 795 00:39:14,670 --> 00:39:12,790 difference for instance the difference 796 00:39:17,220 --> 00:39:14,680 between studying habitable environments 797 00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:17,230 and inhabited environments in our solar 798 00:39:21,330 --> 00:39:18,700 system or two very different things as 799 00:39:23,790 --> 00:39:21,340 opposed to studying either inhabited or 800 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:23,800 habitable environment outside the solar 801 00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:25,450 system you know that whereas there def 802 00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:26,980 they're definitely sort of four 803 00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:28,870 different topics they're outside of the 804 00:39:33,780 --> 00:39:30,430 solar system we really only have one way 805 00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:33,790 to explore that right now and so that's 806 00:39:37,860 --> 00:39:36,040 certainly like a different topic and 807 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:37,870 right now I think in the in this spider 808 00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:40,810 diagram we have it separated into so if 809 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:43,150 you guys feel like you want to combine I 810 00:39:47,490 --> 00:39:45,730 don't know four or five and six or five 811 00:39:49,980 --> 00:39:47,500 and six and sort of separate out how the 812 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:49,990 topics go you know we can we can we can 813 00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:51,370 facilitate that you guys can definitely 814 00:39:56,730 --> 00:39:54,640 do that yeah and and work hard you know 815 00:39:58,380 --> 00:39:56,740 I've just been busy this termite I 816 00:39:59,760 --> 00:39:58,390 fortunately Lindsay says we have a 817 00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,770 chance up through january or so to 818 00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:01,680 comment so I intend to comment people 819 00:40:12,349 --> 00:40:03,119 we'll get sick of my comments quickly as 820 00:40:15,049 --> 00:40:12,359 they usually do so no problem hon do you 821 00:40:18,859 --> 00:40:15,059 think Irene thanks Lindsay any other 822 00:40:21,980 --> 00:40:18,869 comments or questions oh sorry could I 823 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,990 ask a question of Lindsay yeah lindsey 824 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:24,720 is is the strategy document planned to 825 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:27,270 be a kind of US Constitution style short 826 00:40:30,589 --> 00:40:28,650 saying where you can kind of interpret 827 00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:30,599 it very broadly and generally or 828 00:40:38,210 --> 00:40:33,390 specifically or is it intended to be 829 00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:38,220 more of a more detailed kind of many 830 00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:41,369 pages more explicit instruction you know 831 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:43,950 what I mean um well I believe that the 832 00:40:47,390 --> 00:40:45,690 you know I think I think that the 833 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:47,400 ultimate format is not going to be all 834 00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:50,010 that different than our current roadmap 835 00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:52,380 format so you know not a four-page 836 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:54,089 document we're not going to take you 837 00:40:58,809 --> 00:40:57,210 know 26 3 page documents and create a 838 00:41:01,370 --> 00:40:58,819 four-page document out of all of them 839 00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:01,380 you know we're not we're not we're not 840 00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:03,420 combining it down that you know we're 841 00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:05,910 not we're not rendering it that much but 842 00:41:11,930 --> 00:41:07,980 it's certainly not it probably won't be 843 00:41:13,220 --> 00:41:11,940 you know 75 pages though either so it's 844 00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:13,230 going to be sort of somewhere in between 845 00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,390 we're certainly not going to take you 846 00:41:18,799 --> 00:41:17,040 know we're not going to try and maintain 847 00:41:20,539 --> 00:41:18,809 every word but we're going to try and 848 00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:20,549 maintain you know all of the work that 849 00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:21,660 you guys have been doing and all of the 850 00:41:25,789 --> 00:41:23,190 ideas you guys been bringing up and that 851 00:41:31,970 --> 00:41:25,799 kind of thing okay I see did that answer 852 00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:31,980 your question yes okay thanks Lizzie any 853 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:38,790 other questions okay I guess if we're 854 00:41:42,650 --> 00:41:40,530 all if we're all done and all happy I 855 00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:42,660 gotta thank you want to go to per carton 856 00:41:49,609 --> 00:41:48,180 early thank you and we'll just what will 857 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:49,619 I said we were going to open the 858 00:41:53,329 --> 00:41:51,450 document for commenting as soon as the 859 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:53,339 webinars finished we just want to make 860 00:41:58,099 --> 00:41:55,530 sure that we have got the latest version 861 00:41:59,420 --> 00:41:58,109 of the document there that reflects some 862 00:42:01,880 --> 00:41:59,430 changes early and Burkhardt have made 863 00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,890 and so as soon as that's done we'll open 864 00:42:06,530 --> 00:42:03,359 it for commenting the link is on the 865 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:06,540 website the slide pack that you've 866 00:42:11,839 --> 00:42:09,210 seemed to in the webinar is available on 867 00:42:14,030 --> 00:42:11,849 the website and as soon as we get the 868 00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:14,040 recording the link will be on there as 869 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:15,420 well so hopefully 870 00:42:21,289 --> 00:42:18,170 find everything you need by the website 871 00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:21,299 okay I have one I have one quick welcome 872 00:42:28,010 --> 00:42:25,440 like um the we had three comments what 873 00:42:29,329 --> 00:42:28,020 we could change about document two of 874 00:42:33,140 --> 00:42:29,339 them were quite specific should i 875 00:42:34,849 --> 00:42:33,150 include these changes or should I should 876 00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:34,859 I just give you the document that what 877 00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:38,609 they were presented here I think you 878 00:42:43,789 --> 00:42:40,380 have some very specific things it'd be 879 00:42:45,380 --> 00:42:43,799 better just to redo the the online 880 00:42:47,839 --> 00:42:45,390 document once so if you can include 881 00:42:49,490 --> 00:42:47,849 those that would be great okay good and 882 00:42:51,049 --> 00:42:49,500 I have to leave in two minutes I will do 883 00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:51,059 it very quickly and send it to you in 884 00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:53,430 the bottom a minute ok no problem thanks